I whole heartedly endorse rebuking an attack by Conservative Christians that as witness has the sounds of politics instead of the love of God.

Were the purpose of inviting Obama to speak was to lead anyone astray, then severe criticism would be properly called for. As a Christian I will openly and loudly say that (some) Democratic  leaders DO NOT represent me in this world. Nor do I endorse these same despickable who stand on issues that God condemns.

However we are to be witnesses in this world, not law givers, as so many Christians believe is their purpose instead of Gods'. Be it understood that 'spiritual judgment' is not in producing laws, and mature Christians should know the difference.

I would ask these Christians to remember God is all powerful, having all authority, and we are to use mature judgment in issues to be sure we are within the will of God. Apostle Paul it appears by some would thrown out for even thinking that he would become all things to all men so that by all possible means he might save some.

We are servants of God (first), and if in politics this is necessary, let us not become so yoked to one political body that we cast out as is said the baby with the bath-water. 

Lord bless,  DeWayne Benson

>>We reject the creation of an unbiblical litmus test to exclude believers from the body of Christ.  We are called to the ministry of reconciliation and the liberation of all people, spiritually and socially.   

Jesus certainly dined with sinners etc, but he also told them to change their ways.  He did not invite them to speak in the temple or address his apostles as sinners.  

Sen. Obama supports the Partial Birth Abortion procedure and legal abortion, and unlike lay people, he is in a position to promote and protect these barbaric proceedures.  He has not recanted his position, and therefore, has not repented.

This is the problem, an unrepentant person should not be addressing these issues.  

Sen. Obama should be encouraged to recant his support of abortion, an act which does unto others what one wouldn't do to themselves.   Sen. Obama is in the position of great harm to the least of our brothers by not repenting and protecting the least amongst us.

Finally, labeling something as right wing only shows where these pastors are coming from - the left wing.  I don't think Christ would feel comfortable in any wing but Gods. 

This letter is missing the point, and its painfully evident through its characterization of the originators of the intial "Letter to Rick Warren" as "right-wing," rather than as abortion opponents - an ignorant notion that is repeated again and again, and slighting those of us involved in the pro-life movement who are progressive.

The issue was abortion, and Obama's outright support for it.  Believe me when I say that I stand against killing, whether its in the womb, Iraq, or on your own dinner plate, BUT abortion kills more people, and at the most innocent stage of human life.  Sure, Obama may be a crusader against AIDS, but so are many many other people who do not believe the shady notion that its ok to kill human life at the prenatal stage.  Bring them in instead (and while they're at it, how about finding someone other than that showboat Bono....he could do a lot more with his millions than spend it on flashy clothes and big sunglasses).

Be realistic - Obama's name has been floating around as a Democratic candidate for the 2008 presidency, and he's looking for opportunities to get his name out in a positive light.  Rick Warren gave it to him.

Dear Sir, or Madam,

With all due respect, I have a question to ask. Are you saying in your letter that conservative Christains no longer have a right to speak out, and participate in the discussion if we disagree with the people you chose to repersent the Christain Faith. It seems to me what you are saying,is that If people of Faith take a conservative point of veiw, we have no right to carry, this world view into the public domain. In other words take you conservative Christain Faith and leave it out of the public square, and the Church as well.

 Thank You for your attention, 

  JL Dunn                                    

I'm not sure why this is relevant. No one has argued that AIDS should not be addressed or fought nor has anyone argued that AIDS is a good thing. I think you have created a strawman fallacy. The issue here was if Obama should be the one addressing this issue to Evangelicals. Changing the topic is not an effective way of winning an argument.

That comment was very Christian of you Starbuck.

Evil is evil, no matter what the degree.  Obama's position on abortion is nothing short of evil.  According to this board, AIDS has killed 25 million people worldwide since 1981.  I will grant you that, although I am not certain it is verifiable.  Abortion on the other hand has killed 33 MILLION people in America since 1972.  AND THAT IS AMERICA ALONE.

Why doesn't "Pastor" Warren use his pulpit to fight the biggest killer the world knows, a vacuum tube in the hands of a murdered in a white coat.

An open letter to Rick Warren:

The letter written regarding Rick Warren totally ignores the fact that Warren has become a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, a distinctly one world government organization working to destroy America.  The war on Christianity and morality in America has been led by the CFR.  Warren cannot be ignorant of the sinister operations of this organization.  I suspect that he is in whole hearted agreement with their aims.  The wolf in sheep's clothing.  It is amazing what money and power can do to a man.

I am dismayed when I hear these socialists/communists like Obama claim to be Christians.  No man or woman can be a Christian if they support abortion or socialism or if they don't believe the Bible is the Word of God. 

No one seems to remember Jesus words, "If you do it to the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me."  Every abortion is being done to Christ himself.  How can a man claim to love Jesus when he supports killing Him thousands of times daily with abortions?  We must stop the sin that results in the need for abortions.

The AIDS situation has mushroomed, just like every other malady our country and the world faces, due to sin.  The homosexual spits in the face of God claiming special knowledge allowing same sex relations when the creator clearly designed us to be heterosexual and so stated in Genesis.  I know, I know, you liberals don't believe that man is sinful by nature ("for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"), but apparently God disagrees with you.  The unfortunate thing is that had the sinful behavior that caused the AIDS epidemic to spread been addressed in the first place, we would not have millions dying today.  But you see, you liberals refused to obey the scripture and call homosexual behavior sin and refused to demand that those with the disease be quarantined, so now millions are paying the price for your political correctness.  You will have to answer for that.  You see, the sins of the lost affect even the innocent.  Now you scramble to try to stop the epidemic you could have stopped when it began.

"Thou shalt not steal."  This commandment eliminates socialism/communism as a viable alternative for Christians, since the basis of socialism/communism is stealing from those who have earned what they have to give it to those who have not earned anything.  Again, it is sin. 

We are commanded to "go into all the world and preach the Gospel', but you liberals condemn us for preaching the true Gospel that Jesus is the only way.  If He is not the only way, then we are all lost.  Oh, I forgot that you guys don't believe the Bible is the true Word of God, so you just reinterpret it to suit your needs.

I wonder if any of the folks who signed this letter of support for Rick Warren have the Ten Commandments posted in their churches?

What, you mean there are rules we have to live by after we become a Christian?

Dear Faithful Democrats,

I find your railing against "right wing" Christians with a so-called agenda to be very offensive. I love Rick Warren, and I understand what he was doing on behalf of people with HIV-AIDS and those at risk. But I also understand why he received criticism for having Mr. Obama on his podiem. It had NOTHING to do with politics--it had everything to do with moral obligations for those of us who think that the killing of little babies is an abomination that very well may see that we as a nation lose blessings from the Lord. It may very well end our quality of living as we know it. Our society has seen a downward spiral rapidly come about. Every time one thinks they have seen and heard it all, something more unthinkable comes along. There is a basis for this. We are losing our morals, principles, and our view of life itself. How can a young man or woman find it to be wrong to take another life, when the very laws of our land have deemed it acceptable "in certain situations". How can we expect our next generations to have ANY respect for life, and the sanctity thereof. The message we are sending is that human life holds no value and is dispensible if it inconveniences us, if it's causing us a problem. We see this happening more and more at younger and younger ages. ALL human life must be valued and deemed sacred. Yes, being involved with the terrible HIV-AIDS situation is very important. But we cannot stop there. One should not throw his principles and values, and beliefs out the window for any cause. I don't think that is what Pastor Warren was intending to doing, but neither were "Right Wingers" being unreasonable in their criticism and their view. By the way, speaking of devisiveness. Refering to another group of Christians as Right Wingers for standing up for their beliefs is about as devisive as what you were accusing. Saying that it was political for standing up for one's principles, values, and beliefs should never be considered devisive. You railed against it simply because you found it to be Politically Incorrect. Political Incorrectness has become a very big problem when one cannot stand for what one believes. We cannot be ruled by Political Incorrectness.

Thank You,
V. Fitzgibbon

I see Jesus, sitting with the Father. Looking at a bunch of people who claim to be following them, yet they can't wait to throw stones, call names and drag the name of Christ through the mud by claiming to be the "tolerant" ones, the ones who forgive everyone.....yet don't want anything to do with anyone who might back President Bush, or God forbid, be against the murder of unborn children.

My family and I have a litmus test for all politicians and pastors. "Do they back the wholesale slaughter of unborn children or not." Period. God's WORD has nothing but condemnation for those who foster abortion or look the other way. I just can't see Jesus up on that pulpit with a smile on His face and tolerating a politician who refuses to stand for the weakest and most fragile.  Just take your rhetoric on aids and substitute "unborn child", for it.  Oh, I'm so sorry....that would be politically incorrect and intolerant.  In my book you cannot back the Democrat party and stay true to the teachings of the living God.  Back it up with scripture and I'll listen, otherwise.

It's only fitting that Rick should be underfire, and the fact that he's being defended by left-wing psuedo-religious groups and morons like you, and not just for inviting that religious phony, Barack, who shares the same anti-Christian views that you do, is ample evidence of your total and complete hypocrisy..Warren should also continue to be castigated for his accepting the junk science that blames man for global warming, and he most DEFINITELY should be excoriated for for his trip to Syria, and for lying about and defending one of the most brutal of all islamic terrorist regimes in the world.

SHAME ON RICK WARREN!!!

Dear faithful Demos,

     You must be too proud of your new   identity in that you loved to be democrats first and christians last. I continue to wonder how most of you are able to live harmoniously with the two compartments in your brains. The Jesus most of you always try to invoke is the not the compassionate Christ I read about in the Bible. The Jesus of the Bivle loved the sinners but not their sins and often tell them to sin no more so something worst should not befall them. You often too fast invoke the compassion of Christ whenever it suits youe purpose.

     How you could justify a party whose platform calls for abortion on demand, gay marriage, devaluation of anything christian and secularization of our childrens in schools is mind boggling to me.The path you have chosen is not too far from that of Dathan in the Old testament. Christianity to most of you is only on name. You are the true church of Lodecia  for with all your riches and intellectual cridential your remain soiritually bancrupt.

  Sa for Rich Warren, it will not be too long before he become a larger than Jesus in his own delusion. How many controversies have he been involved in just within this year. It seems he is no more able to handle his success. We must keep on building whatever we are building but when the Lord appear he will determine which of our work will stand. I am not here to condem any one but I strongly feel you guys are on the wrong side of the fence. I was born and raised in Africa and as such can identify with Barak Obama but for Obama politics is first and hypocrisy is at the base of whatever he is doing. A noble name in the name of a noble cause executed with wordly agenda most often ends up acheiving nothing meaningful towards the stated goal. If Rich Warren needs worldly men to help him fulfill his call for a social change then he should go back to his prayer room to consult the Lord for a better way and guide line.Moses needed no Ramses to help him let the people go.

A question of semantics:

Perhaps it is the word  'opponent'  that encourages us to be adversarial.  It seems that many will take the other side just to Be on the otherside. It's as if we are afraid we won't be heard unless we are 'opposing'. Or should I say 'imposing'?  Yeah, that's it, that's the ticket!  To question or challenge anyone who come together in the name of Jesus is an IMPOSER!

Now, I ask myself, what could any "so called" pastor" not understand about such an easy to understand Scripture like the one above from 2:CR 6:14?  You cannot have fellowship with darkness if you are in the light;  you cannot be friends with the worldly system, YET THIS IS WHAT THESE PASTORS WOULD HAVE US DO.

For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Robert S. Meybohm, CPA

Newport Beach CA

PDL has BO

How does the presence of 'Borat' Obama (BO) make any difference either way concerning the so-called P.E.A.C.E. plan.  Pseudo-Doctrinal Lies (PDL) is not biblical christianity, never has been, never will be, and so even if BO was not in attendance the whole thing stinks just the same.  Can anybody say "another gospel".  Nothing going on here...'cept the great whore sitting on the scarlet colored beast (Rev. 17:1-3).

This is not christianity at all..it's globalism, and all you self-proclaimed church leaders are the facilitators.  Watch out because after the beast is finished using you......well you'd better look for yourself.  Rev. 17:16.

Why don't we just let Osama and Saddam come to Saddleback Church and Preach...Lets just let everyone in with open arms, Wiccans,Masons,Psychics,Homosexuals,Whoremongers ? I'm sure they're concerned about the AIDS epidemic !

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

                                                                                                                     - 2Timothy 4;3.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ."

                                                                                                                   - Galations 1;8-10.

One question - how does a person become a christian?  As I understand

scripture it's a relationship with God through his son Jesus - the only way

mentioned in scriptrue.  There are not many ways to God only ONE way.  Jesus

himself stated that HE was the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE and that NO ONE

could come to the FATHER - that is GOD - except through HIM.

I rest my case - now, can anyone tell me different?  Be careful of your answer

because it's most likely unbiblical based on the above paragraph with the

quote from the gospel of John chapter 14.

Randy

Dear "Online Christian Community",

It's pretty simple about Rick Warren.  He's supposed to be a Pastor.  Instead he's acting like a politician.  The gospel is not about politics and social issues.  It's about the gospel, that is coming to salvation in Jesus Christ alone.  The other issues of poverty and feeding the hungry are to be by-products of a life changed by Christ. 

Exploiting the Christian faith?  I would ask who is really exploiting the Christian faith?  Maybe both of you are!  The Christian faith is about salvation in no other than Jesus Christ.  Reconciliation to God through Christ and therefore individuals are liberated one person at a time. 

It does ring hypocritical for a pro-choice politician to speak at Warren's church.  But it doesn't surprise me about Saddleback because they have been compromising for a long time.  The worst part of this is not political but what it does to the real issue of the gospel!  The gospel is being defined as social issues as the priority, when in reality the Bible makes it clear it's repentance from sin and a changed life as a result.  It's too bad the baby in the manger's message is lost because of wanting to score politically!  Is there such a thing as those who call themselves Christians but in fact are nothing of the sort?  Does the Bible talk about those that would call themselves Christians but are not?

The issue of aids is of serious concern, the suffering of many is well documented, the disease having spread to many even children and babies. And regarding Christian leaders expressing concern, there may well have been more emotional expression than needed instead of Christian love.

As a Christian who has warned about expressing emotion rather than understanding of an issue or problem, the undercurrent of this issue is being lost in subsequent rebuke that itself is divisive. It is necessary to view all sides of this discussion.

Christians need always witness on issues with love, this involves concern for the many who suffer the results of aids. Christians also need be aware where this dreaded disease originates. It is true this disease has spread, it now may be found in many group's and people. Yet the underlying concern of these Christian leaders must also be addressed, and this is the agent known for the earliest progression of aids. This was and may still be primarily due to drugs, homosexual, and sexual error's of hetrosexual involved in habit's of error.

I will state for all Christians, do not berate these Christian leaders being implied as haters and homophobic. These Christians are not haters of people (even called sinners), these are haters of sin and as such they should be. Also I give warning about evil people who will use this misunderstood situation to drive a wedge between Christians. And this is what I believe is being done.

Sin (is) a sin, I am a sinner, yet in repentance I know the Lord can make me a better person at the same time in forgiving me my sin. In my life I have many times been rebuked, deservedly, and hopefully learned from the experience. I hope as well that these people involved in homosexuality, drugs, and sexual error see the serious and dangerous conditions involved, and learn. I pray that the warning of Christian leaders in this affair is not lost on those who need learn.

Let's really blame who is to blame here about why Barack is taking the space that should be reserved to be Holy Ground for Preaching God' s Word.  It must be God's fault!  He's making this happen......

Yet, God has allowed this world to live in the consequences of sin.  All the curses upon us we are due!  We all deserve Hell.  I deserved Hell and was going there except the sin, yes the SIN I was living in, cut and broke me.  I don't have a problem with trying to help people who have diseases, but Rick Warren is another worldly establishe "saint" just like Mother Teresa.  They comfort people on these people's way to the Lake of Fire.  This is the agency of Satan.  Preaching the Word of God, that we are evil and unrighteous and deserving of hell's judgment and preaching the LAW as the mirror to show people their sins is a Pastor / Evangelist first priority.  This has been left aside because we love People more than we love God in these last days.  Perilous times are here, you all who signed this document love yourselves and your mission and your people more than you love God.  If you loved God you would never bring a purveyor of evil like Barack, a person who is promoting the murder of the most helpless of helpless, the unborn humans.  He is a promoter of ideas from the pit of Hell and you guys are defending him and his promoter Rick Warren.  You have lost or never had the FEAR of God and most likely you guys have never been convicted of your utter evilness by having the prescence of God Holy Spirit convict and condemn you to cry out for salvation.  God's plan is to have us die to self and be raised up to be conformed into the nature of his son Jesus to dwell with God in obediance in heaven forever.  Sin is going to run its course. Preaching to people to call on Jesus in true conviction is what we are first to do.  Saving people from disease to just have a better life here is satanic humanism.  Repent and do the first works.  Love Jesus / God over all and then serve Him.  Yes, you can help people but we do it by the leading of the Holy Spirit, not some purveyor of evil that has ordained himself a "christian" in his mind, but never seen himself as an utter sinner, so as to die and be born again.  Sola Deo Gloria,  Dave Parrish

How does one build the "church" of the Lord Jesus Christ with promoters of abortion and homosexuality and with devoted Muslims...as Rick has publicly announced in his promotion of his P.E.A.C.E. plan?  Rick Warren has lost his way when he believes he can do the Lord's work without the Lord's approval and with complete disregard for His standards.  Sounds like Paul's warning should help us here.  "after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.  Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES AFTER THEMSELVES."  Acts 20:29-30  Power hungry???

Let me get this straight.  There is a disease in the world called AIDS which has predominately been spread by actions that the Bible condemns such as promiscuity, especially homosexual acts.  Knowing people know that sin affects others and this is shown in the AIDS epidemic since innocents such as young children have contracted this disease.  Jesus told the women at the well to sin no more.  He didn't say that she could keep on sinning because he would get all his friends as well as the Roman government to raise money to help support her sin by taking away any complications that many arise because of that sin.  Let me also get this straight.  The remedy for the AIDS situation in the mind of  Rick Warren can be found not by searching the scripture but by by getting some people together to talk about what they can do.  At least one of the helpers Warren gathers is BO, a democrat who supports not only the dismemberment and subsequent killing of children who are alive and partially born but also supports homosexual activity and will do what he can in the government to protect that activity.  So instead of agreeing with scripture about the answer to the problem, Warren has gathered promiscuity-supporters like BO so they can figure out some way that people can keep their rebellious (against both God and people including children) lifestyle without negative fallout such as AIDS occuring. Rick Warren wants people to come up with a "better" way to solve the issue.  In other words, he has rejected THE answer for another "answer" that can be found in the great wisdom of the licentious-supporters.  Deceived people can label this activity as "Christian and compassionate" but God is not mocked or fooled.   Instead of using his influence to encourage people to turn from their sin to the only Savior, Warren does the opposite it appears.  The fuel for AIDS across the globe is promiscuity, especially homosexual actions.  If people repented and did what scripture said concerning their lifestyle, the spread of AIDS would soon be checked.  Not everybody is interested in this solution to the AIDS problem so it is not a good one you might say.  Well, not everybody is interested is doing what the Bible says to get saved but that hasn't caused the Savior to come up with plan B,C,D+.  People have been given free will to make their choices and this is why everybody will be judged according to their choices made.  They can choose Gods way, the way of life.  Or they can choose the opposite, the path of destruction, suffering and death.  To try to fix the "system" so that people can choose the road of suffering death but still ride the high road of life is actually working against the principles of God.  I could go on and on but suffice it to say that a lot of things have been done and will continue to be done in the name of "faithful" religion.  The coming great judgement of our God will separate the wheat from the chaff.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all (James 2:10)

For all those who condemn with such vitriolic anger and even hatred, have you ever broke the law of God in one point? If so-you are guilty of breaking the whole law. Have you perfectly loved God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength today, or even this past week? You violate the first command, the "greatest command" of God, yet you make abortion the chief one. Have you loved your neighbor as yourself? Have you loved the neighbor in Africa with AIDS? Have you loved the 15 year old girl raped who felt forced to have an abortion? Have you demostrated Gods love on here? To Rick Warren? To Obama? You violate the second "greatest commandment." "Be Holy as I am Holy!" Does anyone here really think they keep this one!

To make abortion the only moral issue (and neglect the rest) is to violate the law of God! We are to address in our lives the entire counsel of God. The pharisee picked and chose the morals they wanted to observe, and used them to condemn, and reject those who Christ loved. Are you one of the "whitewashed tombstones" (Christs reference to Pharisee's), who neglect to see their own sin, in violating the greatest command, and point fingers to the sin in Obama's life, or Rick Warren's life, by selectively looking at one or two moral issues, and neglecting the counsel of God in all of life?

We all deserve God's judgement. Our only hope is God's mercy and grace, demonstrated in sending Immanuel. That is your only hope, as well as Obama's and Rick Warren. Come and celebrate, Immanuel, God with us, who come to save sinners, even those you condemn.

I address the points Steve makes in his email dated the 19th of December.  It is the classic counter attack of those who criticize any who condemn the actions of Rick Warren and his false teachings.  They trot out the claims of "you are a Pharisee".  Oh, you have sin in your life, so how can you talk about the sin in anybody else's life."  I know all of the verses dealing with this topic and I also know that it is my duty to discern and to JUDGE what comes out of the mouth of a so called preacher and to determine if this is the word of God, or just the words of a man.  I check his doctrine and I examine his actions to see if his life and his words are lined up with Biblical principals and sound Biblical doctrine.  If the standard is that noboday gets to talk if sin is in ther life, then Peter, Paul and all of the original Apostles that spread the Gospel would have been disqualified so I reject this obviosly silly argument.  Nobody who rejects the false teaching of Rick Warren is doing so from a postion of strength as a member of the Sanhedrin; so this argument is specious.

What we can see is that Rick Warren is making political gestures to politicians.  He is making an idiot out of himself in foreign countries with despots (Assad) that are sworn enemies of the people who are the apple of God's eye (Israel).  Not only has he done these things, he has returned and then made misleading statements to outright lies about his activities.  He is linking his activities to a man who endorses the wholesale slaughter of unborn children.  Now I ask myself what would Jesus do?  I know that he would be very grieved by Rick Warren's comments about Syria; Syria is one of the world's primary supporters of terrorism, yer Rick went over there and said nice things about Assad.  Warren looked like a total buffoon; a back channel for peace?  I don't think so.  As far as conducting his affairs with the modern day baby killer Obama, I don't think Jesus would have too many kind words for Rick on this topic either.  He'd probably say something cryptic like "you're either with me or you're against me" and move on.  A guy like Rick Warren probably would not get it, because he will be one of those who will be surprised perhaps one day when he pleads but "Lord.....I did all these things....."...."get away from me ...I don't know you" says the Lod Jesus.

Rick Warren....Rock Star.........Purple HAZE has clouded his vision....has it clouded your vision as well Steve?

Robert S Meybohm, CPA

Newport Beach, CA

You must be kidding, right?  This has nothing to do with politics, it has to do with Biblical morality.  To claim "Why the attacks?  Because they disagree with Obama's politics" is rather absurd.  We object to abortion on moral, not political, grounds.  

At some point, both sides of the fence will realize that this is not about liberal versus conservative, or democrat versus republican, it is about right and wrong.  And we can not tolerate those who advocate moral wrongs.  Period.

In regard to Americans being Dems and Reps first and Christians second, I would put forth this challenge:

Resign from your parties and live the life that Jesus taught. If we are really Christian first then we should be Christian second as well. Want to change the world, or at least the U.S., or at the very minimum the state you live in? Live like a Christian and don't worry about politics. Any lifestyle that states that salvation equals Jesus plus anything is non-Christian. Salvation is not Jesus plus the Democratic or Republican platform any more than Jesus plus dietary laws or circumcision. Christians must feed the poor, care for the environment, preach the gospel and be concerned about justice in Jesus' name, not the name of a political party.